Accounts from the Williamsburg office
In June of 2023, Ember Health’s Williamsburg office administrator Kendall Powers (left) sat down with Clinical Director Dr. Anya Karpov (center) and Nurse Navigator Liz McGowan (right) to discuss their experiences with patients and on the team.
Thank you both for taking the time to sit down with me. I’d love to know what first drew you to working at Ember?
Anya: I originally reached out from a place of curiosity, and the more that I learned about it, the more I felt like this was something I wanted to be a part of on so many different levels. This role would allow me to connect with patients and establish meaningful connections. The efficacy rate of ketamine is also very high, compared to a lot of other mental healthcare interventions, so it’s pretty amazing to be providing a treatment that has such great treatment outcomes. I also really loved Ember’s approach and think we set a standard for how patients with mental health issues are taken care of.
Liz: What drew me the most to Ember was, similarly to Anya, the idea that I could connect with patients on such a personal level. It’s very ‘patient-first’. You could also really see the intention behind everything, even on the website. I thought, “Wow, they clearly care – it’s not just a business for them.” I wanted to work for people who gave that much attention to the patient experience.
What have you found most gratifying about your work with patients who come to Ember?
Liz: The patients themselves. Developing relationships with people. The fact that we have certain patients come in and they immediately give you a hug and say, “It’s so great to see you.” Some patients do experience rapid shifts, where they walk in one way and they are leaving differently. And you’re seeing that transformation first-hand; you’re watching things shift for them as they’re coming in each time. Every single time, you’re like, “we are making a difference.” I never really felt like that previously. I’m seeing it, and it’s palpable. A lot of patients have said, “You’ve given me my life back.” To be a part of that is so special.
Anya: Tiffany and Nico [Ember Health Co-Founders] talk about the ‘ripple effect’; it’s so cool to see how patients will tell you in so many different layers how their lives are being affected. It could be different shifts in perspective that lead to a cascade of events. “I’m motivated to quit drinking, and that’s easier to do, and because of that my relationships have improved, my motivation for other things has increased…” It really inspires a blossoming. You hear about their family members or people close to them noticing a difference. One patient told us, “I went to my Primary Care doc, and I was able to come off of my high blood pressure medication.” We know this! It is well studied that depression can have very real physical consequences. So to see so many different ways of somebody’s improvement impacting their lives is really cool. It’s by far the most rewarding job I’ve ever had.
What do you think surprises people most about ketamine therapy?
Liz: I feel like the general public is still like, “Ketamine? For Depression?” Which I get – I didn’t know Ketamine was used for depression before I found this job. I’ll tell a lot of people the efficacy rates and they’re like “Wow, that’s a lot!” I think our patients also experience a shift from knowing the potential impact intellectually, to then actually being able to feel the benefit.
Anya: There’s definitely an association of 1970’s rhetoric. To this day, people are terrified and think all drugs are the same, and have a category in their minds of which drugs are bad versus good. It’s important to acquaint patients with the literature and the enormous amount of data that has come through in the past couple decades. I am able to show how this is effective for depression when done in a controlled clinical setting.
Liz: When I talk to peers and people who only know of it as a recreational drug, I try to convey that ketamine really is so effective at helping people treat their depression. We need to change the narrative. Another thing that initially drew me to Ember is that it truly is evidence based. I’m continually impressed by the emphasis and commitment to stay up to date on all of the literature, because it’s in the best interest of the patient.
We continue to see changes in the public dialogue regarding mental health and accessing mental healthcare. How do you feel about the progress that has been made, and how this conversation will continue to evolve?
Liz: From when I was younger to now, I think it’s shifted enormously. I think there’s a long way to go, but even the word ‘therapy’ when I was younger was not cool or typical; it was, “If you’re in therapy it means something bad.” Now, I feel like almost everyone I talk to is in therapy, wants a therapist, or is at least aware of therapy. There’s so much less stigma around that, and yet, we still have a long way to go. I still feel mental health issues can be viewed as a personal deficit, which is not the case.
Anya: There’s a really noticeable change from when we were younger, seeing how much less stigmatized mental healthcare is. I wouldn’t have heard these conversations at all amongst my peers – outside of work – when I was younger. Now it’s commonplace and normalized much more. In intake calls, I’m often surprised that patients will have these very nuanced understandings of their mental health. I predict this will be a shift we continue to see.
The three of us are lucky enough to work in our wonderful Williamsburg clinic. What’s your favorite part of this neighborhood?
Liz: Williamsburg has a really beautiful community. It’s very young, it’s very vibrant. I live here as well, and it just feels really special to be here serving this community.
Anya: There are many people who are quite open-minded and who I would want to spend time with and get to know anyway, so it was a patient population I was very excited to work with. To get to build a patient census from the ground up is also so special, because you get to know every single patient quite well.
That’s all for now, team – thank you for your time!